Talk:Vincent Law
12:04, March 31, 2012 (UTC) That sounds like the best theory that I've heard that makes sense out of everything... I dunno, the way Re-L created Vincent in her head out of her guilt over her betrayal might symbolize something about the Vincent/Proxy One relationship, but it's getting too confusing to figure out how the parallels map out. Maybe epsiode 20 was the turning point, when Vincent, motivated by Re-L, decided not to run from facing the proxy within him and shoots it. Completely opposite to how he let Monad be a conduit to him running away from everything, including his proxy-self. The only thing I would add is that Proxy One calls Vincent Law the "after image" of Proxy One (or was it Ergo?) in despair. Also, either Swan or Kazkis tells Vincent "you forgot yourself, and so you lost yourself" .Plus, I felt like the last few episodes hinted that Vincent Law/Ergo Proxy didn't actually have any memories that he could even claim as his own, so perhaps he was just created where his memories start in Mosque. Oh well, this anime confuses the heck out of me... I'm watching it again for the 4th time, hoping to understand it better and get back to the wikia. ^^ I think that it's fairly safe to say that the birthplace of Vincent Law is Mosk. That is where Ergo created the persona. As for Ergo, if we speak of him as a separate persona for now, well, that brings up the question of which came first, Ergo or Proxy One. If Ergo was Proxy One's creation, then his birthplace is Romdo. If Ergo came first, well, we don't know where the hell the Proxies were created originally.--ReadingChick 12:46, January 11, 2010 (UTC) Oh really? I never heard anything about where Vincent/Ergo were (physically) created, I'm fine with it being Mosk I was just unsure. My theory was that Ergo and Proxy one both existed at the same time as a multiple personality of proxy one. The two had different ideas and generally have a personality conflict, hence the two split in two. Remember back to the book store episode where Proxy one is talking to Vincent/Ergo about how "they both somehow managed to change their pulse". I think I wrote this all down in detail on the community journal, or rambled it to someone I know.--KercKasha 12:54, January 11, 2010 (UTC) I'm assuming. When Proxy One and Ergo became physically separate entities is open to interpretation. It could very well be that Proxy One split off from Ergo in Mosk as well, and it would explain why they both seemed to care for/be in love with Monad. (Judging by the way he spoke to her in the final episode.) I suppose it depends on how long ago Proxy One set up his little revenge gambit, because it was my impression that Ergo (whether created from another part of Proxy One's personality or not) was created to be the agent of Proxy One's revenge. Mosk's invasion seems almost to be...the precipitating action for everything. --ReadingChick 13:14, January 11, 2010 (UTC) Gonna copy paste my post from the journal: I'm not sure about everyone else but the way I interpreted it was this: Proxy One always had a multiple personality disorder (Or at least, late enough for it to become a significant part of him) and this second personality was the more empathetic Ergo Proxy. Judging by how proxy one refers to Ergo/Vincent as the 'creator' of Romdo and not actually himself, but it's the whole idea of 'I am you and you are me'. So while physically Ergo and Proxy one at this point were one being, Ergo was the sort of more 'dominant' personality (like Re-l was in Goodbye Vincent) and made all the major decisions. Which lead to his 'anguish' and the need to run away from it all. Perhaps Proxy one was part of the plan all a long, not the revenge plan mind you but the idea that instead of having one single body to share they'd separate and do their own thing. But Ergo Proxy tricked Proxy one into basically taking the entire responsibility of Romdo for Ergo, while Ergo runs off hating himself for all that he's done and tried to forget by creating the Vincent Persona. This is why Proxy one seeks revenge, while he gets to finally be put to rest Ergo will have to continue living in his own misery. I never watched the subbed version so I'm going off the dubbed versions dialogue instead(which isn't all that much different from what I've seen anyway) "That which is divided must become one", pretty straight forward really. Ergo and Vincent have to become one single personality instead of an angsty god and a retarded gerbil man. This in itself is the broken cog in the machine, Proxy one wanted him to suffer but because Vincent ends up on top in the terms of personality, he has nothing to be miserable about. He has Re-l, right? :p--KercKasha 13:21, January 11, 2010 (UTC) Perhaps Proxy One could be considered the father of Ergo/Vincent and Monad could be considered Vincent Law's mother and he was born in Romdeau but immergrated to Mosk in his Proxy form and erased his memory there because he didn't like how the Proxies where. Separate Pages Do you guys think there should be a separate page for Ergo Proxy from Vincent Law, like there's a separate page about Proxy One? Technically speaking, they're all the same person, but someone first getting into the series wouldn't know that, and it'd be pretty spoilery if we revealed that Ergo is Vincent's true self from the get-go. Any thoughts on this? --Steel (talk) 10:37, June 14, 2011 (UTC) Oh God, the philosophical debates that we could have on the whole Vincent Law/Ergo Proxy/Proxy One thing... You're right, it is spoilery, and that's a problem. But a separate page for Ergo Proxy wouldn't have much on it - once Vincent realises that he's a proxy, the only effective difference between him and Ergo is their appearance. Even before that, 'Ergo' doesn't display much of a personality - 'he' only acts to protect himself. 11:17, June 14, 2011 (UTC) : I always wondered about that, actually, because in Episode 11, it's like it's Ergo who's speaking to Vincent, trying to get him to realise he's a Proxy. But you could also argue that no, it's Proxy One, since Ergo and Vincent are one in the same (and since it's the same voice actor). You could also take it further and argue that the only conversation he really had in his head was with Proxy One, because by this point Proxy One and Ergo/Vincent have evolved into two separate beings even though they were derived from the same whole, etc. etc... yeah, I can tell what you mean by how complicated this can get! : It's just that, when you first watch the series (especially if you don't know that Vincent and Ergo are the same person) you're just as lost as Vincent, and you're essentially following him on his route to self-discovery, finding out the truth along with him. I feel that there's almost something magical about going about it the old-fashioned way like that. I didn't know that Vincent was Ergo when I first saw the show (my friend only told me it was a post-apocalyptic show that was very philosophical and promised me it would be right up my alley) and I figured it out myself by putting all the pieces together. But now that I'm having my sister watch the show along with me, since she already knows he's Ergo that magical quality is gone, and she's more eager to know when Vincent finds out rather than appreciate the effort he puts into the discovery. : I know that spoilers can't be avoided, but to wrap up my rambling, I think that a small page detailing a few things about Ergo, or a section specifically about the Ergo Proxy aspect of Vincent, might be best to avoid spoilers for potential new viewers. --Steel (talk) 13:21, June 14, 2011 (UTC) : Date of Birth time posting on a wiki, so tell me, if I got anything wrong- I'm just watching episode 04. Before the intro (minute 01:14/01:15) you can see Re-L reading documents on Vincent Law and for a second the whole page with his personal data is shown. As far as I can tell, the date of birth, as known to the officials, is the 1st of October (certain on this one) 280AI (not too certain). The place of birth is said to be Mosk. Can anyone confirm this? Thanks. Seiichirou 14:58, August 10, 2013 (UTC)